Many thanks for the fresh offer which i hadn’t seen just before
I don’t know if you had access to Douglas Richardson’s Plantagnet Ancestry or otherwise not, since it try written once the a reference to own Americans which have colonial forefathers off Plantagenet lineage. He provides among their evidences that Joanna was brand new mother out of Gwladus Ddu that Llewelyn gave the new functions regarding Knighton and you can Norton castles inside the Shropshire to Ralph Mortimer whenever he and Gwladus were married. It would was unlawful getting Llewelyn provide Joanna’s property so you’re able to a keen illegitimate child (or individual that wasn’t a child from Joanna). This new features away from Norton and you will Knighton remained throughout the Mortimer relatives after that. The brand new quote are, “That when the fresh new King give Land to men that have a great lady off their kindred in the frank wedding, additionally the woman dyeth as opposed to topic, the person on the Kings case will not wait getting their existence, due to the fact lady was the cause of this new present.” Put another way, the brand new properties would have reverted back to the top in advance of they could have been provided to a baby who was perhaps not Joanna’s.
Hey, Marilyn, I did not get access to the brand new Plantaganet Origins by Doug Richardson, but did get access to the countless talks associated with him and their ideas together with other genealogists (particular to have your, but some along with against). In my opinion, as i manufactured in my earlier report, one exactly what shifts it personally(Joanna as being the mother out of Gwladus), is the import of your attributes you mention in order to Ralph de- Mortimer upon their ed two of its youngsters ‘John’ and you will ‘Joan.’ I can not imagine that when the Gwladus is the fresh ded their particular people ergo. Inspite of the objections involving the eminent genealogists We mention significantly more than, there clearly was a broad opinion one Gwladus Ddu is going to be fairly recognized as the newest daughter from Llywelyn ab Iorwerth from the Joanna, daughter (after that legitimised) away from Tunus eЕџ satД±n al John, King from The united kingdomt. I would ike to bring this possibility to go along with Sharon (for the a message to me) one to Llywelyn’s child Gwenllian are of the Tangwystyl and not Joanna, and so being bloodstream sibling to Gruffudd. We base that it partially to the today’s list used in ‘Regal and other Historical emails Illustrative of the leadership out-of Henry 111,’ modified of the Rev. Walter W. Shirley, vol step one. To the profiles five-hundred-503 ‘s the transcript regarding a unique page old Marshall, Earl off Pembroke, to Queen Henry 111. Inside letter, Marshall discusses his siege of your castles out-of Crum, Kilmore and you may O’Realy. The guy listing the people he based in the palace O’Realy whenever they surrendered, it provided: “…uxor Wilelmi de- Lascy, filia Leulini, soror Griffini de patre ainsi que matre, mais aussi uxor Thomae Blund fratis dicti Willelmi, mais aussi mater dictorum Willelmi mais aussi Thomae ….” I am told that implies that you will find right here Gwenllian, daughter from Prince llywelyn, which is apparently titled ‘sister away from Gruffudd.’ As you may know Gruffudd are the fresh new illegitimate young man away from Llywelyn, it is drawn you to definitely ‘de patre mais aussi matre’ means Gwenllian and you will Gruffudd was in fact full blood cousin and sibling. Got Gwenllian been Joanna’s child and therefore King Henry’s relative, undoubtedly Marshall will have stated thereon facts? Which failure regarding de Lacy’s partner since the king’s relative, are drawn as near particular research you to Gwenllian wasn’t this new daughter of your king’s aunt Joanna.
This type of functions was basically section of Joanna’s maritagium off their particular father Queen John
Ken: Many thanks for one mention of the Gwenllian. I am not a professional genealogist, but I actually do a great amount of browse by myself traces. I believe some of the “pros” are incredibly envious and you can enraged of each and every most other (about obviously means in some of everything they blog post). You’ll find items that our company is just not likely to see with confidence regarding the members of brand new MA as they didn’t continue vital records such as for instance i carry out now, therefore genealogists and you may historians have to use their very best view into the sorting things away. In reality, public record information is actually a pretty “new” layout – of several states here in the us didn’t keep suggestions regarding births and deaths through to the early 1900’s. I fall into several lineage communities where I have had in order to prove 11 or twelve years, and you may trust me it is hard. Therefore i very delight in the difficulty off evaluating MA forefathers. (In addition to sad matter is the fact that the info that exist into the MA are of your own royalty and nobility – absolutely nothing after all with the common people).